states into a recession. but many of your elected politicians don't have the political will to compromise and to reach across party lines and agree on measures to reduce our debt. not this close to a national election, not a chance. that's not enough to persuade you, let's take the most recent snapshot of the economy. there is one thing i understand, i don't understand much. i understand the economy. 34,000 more people filed for unemployment claims last week. 12.6 million of you are out of work. housing prices are flat. and gas pricesare up 11 cents in the last two weeks. we've got enough problems to worry about without going over a fiscal cliff. christine romans joins me now. tell our viewers what this fiscal cliff is. >> it is something that replaced europe as the biggest threat to the recovery. "the washington post" says the main threat to the u.s., shifting from what others may do to us to what we're doing to ourselves. what we're doing, huge automatic tax increases.

on january 1st next year the bush tax cuts, those expire. those tax cuts expire. also, if do you nothing, that means if nothing changes your taxes will likely go up. at the same time, medicare doctor pay will also go down. on top of those tax increases, the very same moment massive cuts to federal spending. if current law stays in place, the government must slash $1 trillion over nine years from federal spending. half of them from defense, half from nondefense departments. the bipartisan policy center says it will cost about a million jobs over two years, one million jobs over two years. not just government jobs, jobs in the private sector mshgs from contractors working with the government and they are quite frankly right now trying to figure out how to prepare those layoff notices. the economy is barely growing right now. 1.7% if you average out the first half of 2012. what we've seen and what the forecast is. the second half of 2012, 2.5%. this is a ubs forecast and some say it might be too optimistic. take a look here. you warned of that recession, if

the economy goes off the fiscal cliff, the congressional budget office says that gdp will shrink in the first half of the year. that is unless we back away from the fiscal cliff. that is a recession. it is uncharacteristic of the cbo to make a call like. that ben bernanke again warned congress again this week about this potential. what makes it scary, it's happening in an election year. no one expects congress to deal with any of these big issues until after november 6th. also approaching the debt ceiling limit again. we could hit that as early as december. all of this is on congress' to-do list in an election year. >> remember, whether people say they want smaller government, you brought out a good point, particular fli defense spending. smaller government -- it's not government employees. it's government contracts to private sector workers. christine, don't go far. this is a hot topic. what would that recession look like? will cane joins us now and bill gross is the founder and co-chief investment officer of

pimco. bill, i'll get to you in a second. will, i've investigated the origins of your name. it turns out that will cane is gaelic for ostrich with head in sand. you think we should do nothing. >> i don't think we should do nothing. i think the obviousness of your call for action on the fiscal cliff is clear to everyone regardless of the political ideology. however, i don't want you to be nearsighted. i fear you're being nearsighted. right around the corner from the fiscal cliff is another problem. in fact, it's a problem exacerbated by avoiding the fiscal cliff. if i can. may i show what you i'm talking about? >> go ahead. >> you have a graphic? >> that's right. >> this shows the united states debt to gdp ratio. right here this blue line extending from the green which is our current situation shows what happens to our debt to gdp ratio should we avoid the fiscal cliff that, is tax cuts are extended and spending cuts are avoided. within 30 years we sort go to 200% gdp. if we let the fiscal cliff, if

we go over it, we keep it at 53% of gdp, you say look, those are numbers. that is debt to gdp that, is long term. frequent guests of this program have put out a study. >> he is a harvard economist. >> he said high levels of government debt to gdp has a depressing effect on the economy. 24% reducing gdp over a 20-year period. you're feeling. that you will feel that. all i'm saying is the conclusion is lord make me chaste just not yet. >> i don't want to discuss your chastity on television. big gross, let's bring bill into this conversation. a very compelling discussion about how you want to keep debt to gdp ratios at a -- in a tight relationship except that you can have low debt and low gdp as well. you look at this. you are investors in bonds. the u.s. is still got the advantage of borrowing money very inexpensively. give me your picture on this. >> well, i think will has a

point. i think i'm on your side and christine's side in terms of the need to sort of go carefully. the american economy like a dug addict has become hooked on credit and debt and both public and private economies. but addicts can be cured cold turkey. that's dangerous as we know. and so you need to prescribe some method both from the standpoint of the federal reserve and from washington's fiscal policy which is what you speak to. and that, to me, means gradually reducing deficits from nine to eight to 7% of gdp every year with a focus, i think, on shifting from consumption to investment spending. >> i don't even see the incremental approach here. that's what's interesting to me. it's all or nothing. either the fiscal cliff or 200% debt to gdp ratio. we need policymakers who can signal to the world and signal to americans that they get it and they're going to try to fix it slowly and responsibly.

i don't think anybody has heard that, right? >> no, of course not. and that is the call here. the call is to get out there as voters and look for and support those people who are running in your districts, not because they are democrats, not because they're republicans, not because they say get your hands off my entitlements but because they're prepared to come up with a middle ground which is the only solution. will cane accuses me of coming up with a new problem as i solved the most immediate problem. i wonder whether you played asteroids. whether that asteroid is coming at you, you have to shoot it. it is require he will that there are 86 more asteroids coming. i would love to not live in a world where we're playing economic asteroids but we are. >> i agree. i agree with all of you. but unfortunately for our ratings, that is. the issue here is what is that middle ground? how do i get from the long term solution to your short term emergency measures? >> and sort both of them out? >> that's right. what i suggest is we know the

path. we just have to make politicians do it. bill gross, let me ask you this. if we have this middle ground this approach where we reduce debt over time or we have some indication that we're reducing debt over time and engage in measures that will increase economic growth which is code for creating jobs. that's ultimately what we need to do generally speaking to create jobs. how will the bond markets react? the fear that people have is that at some point everybody's attention is going to turn to the united states. it's been busy with europe. they're going to say you guys have unsustainable debt and the interest rates are going to go way up. >> i think that's a possibility. at the moment, treasures are being bought by the federal reserve and chinese and others with the confidence that as we call it, the united states is the cleanest dirty shirt in the world. you know, to a certain extent, you know, if we continue to run 8%, 9%, 10% deficits, then as will points out, you know, at some point our debt to gdp rises

to levels in greece. >> hold that thought. we're going to pick up where we left off when we come back. plus i'm going to tell you about another part of the storm. the people that should be watching out for you are not. that holds you back from achieving all the economic prosperity you can. when i come back, i'll talk about how safety you aren't two years after the passage of the biggest financial regulation in 75 years. there are a lot of warning lights and sounds vying for your attention. so we invented a warning you can feel. introducing the all-new cadillac xts. available with a patented safety alert seat. when there's danger you might not see, you're warned by a pulse in the seat. it's technology you won't find in a mercedes e-class. the all-new cadillac xts has arrived, and it's bringing the future forward.

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understand we need tax reform. we need economic growth. we need to solve the jobs problem. i don't think there is anyone that would like us to go over the fiscal cliff. why is this problem not getting solved? >> you have to give something up. some people are going to give something up. some people could give up mortgage interest deduction. sh could give up some of their retirement benefits. i don't even know what is all on the table to give up. no one wants to give anything up. in a way, it's almost like america is living the me more now bubbler are a. no one wants to pay for what we've already spent. >> well, okay. >> i reject your premise. the fiscal cliff will be avoided. calvin coolage said if you see ten problems coming down the road, odds are if you stand still, nine will fall in the ditch. the fiscal cliff is going to fall in the ditch. why will it get sol snved? the obvious of the need for it to be solved. i will visit economic effects? yes. but if we keep playing agency

troid asteroi asteroids, we'll never focus on the long term problem which is that entitlement reform, that tax reform that so necessary. >> bill gross is the smart money on. this he deals with the people that buy the bonds. i could be right the you could be right. ultimately, the bet is made in world in which bill operates. >> the long term is the threat in terms of the u.s. bond work. that means bonds to the extend that we continue to run deficits of 8% and 9%. that means higher inflation and ultimately that is a negative for those 20 and 30-year treasuries. what an investor would want to do to protect him or herself against that possibility is to buy shorter term securities, to buy three to five-year securities so that inflation couldn't erode the principle ir so quickly. this is taking place in the united states and else around the world. >> ultimately, bill, what it is that people that end us the

money, the bopd holders, people that keep america solvent through this crisis, what is the best thing they need to see in your opinion? this is very confusing. right after we got a downgrade and we didn't deal with the debt ceiling, money got cheaper to borrow in the united states which got puzzling for all of us. what is it that they need to see in order to keep our borrowing rates low for long enough for us to repair some of the damage that we've gone through? >> two main things, one, low inflation. inflation is an enemy of the bond holder. so keep it low. but at the same time, bond holder wants growth. that is typically associated with the stock market. but as we see in greece and space and other countries in europe, the extent that you move negative in terms of growth and bonds are subject to default. so that is a delicate combination. low inflation, relatively attractive growth. i mean 1% o to 2% minimum growth at a minimum. and that at the buying edge and cutting line that we're experiencing now. so let's have growth.

let's have low inflation and that combination results from gradually reducing deficits over time as opposed to cutting them immediately and preventing the recession that washington is warning about. >> all right, bill gross for congress. we need legislations like. that always a pleasure to see you. bill gross, founder of pimco and will cane and christine romans. thanks to all of you. next, a woman who took on wall street and washington to protect you. she became a target for the banking industry and its republican defenders in the senate when things got too hot, the obama administration sacrificed her. she couldn't fix the system from the outside. so now she wants in. elizabeth warren right after the break. ou take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin totally dedicated to your eyes, from the eye-care experts at bausch + lomb. as you age, eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. [ male announcer ] ocuvite has a unique formula not found in your multivitamin to help protect your eye health.

now, that's a pill worth taking. [ male announcer ] ocuvite. help protect your eye health. what ? customers didn't like it. so why do banks do it ? hello ? hello ?! if your bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello ? ally bank. no nonsense. just people sense.

. it used to be there were three ways could find financial prosperitiment you could work your way up the ladder, get regular races and buy a home. 13 million people officially out of work in the united states, stability is uncertain, growing your income is a path to

prosperity is even less certain. so scratch that from the list. option two, you get rich off of your home. the home, by the way, that used to go up in value year after year after year. that bubble burst when we overborrowed and gorged ourselves on cheap credit. when we learned the hard way that home prices don't always go up. when prices fell, they took a big pile of american wealth down with them. if can you afford a house today, if you have the down payment and credit score and a steady job, low mortgage rates make it a great time to buy. but you will not get rich off your house any time soon. so what's left? well, the only remaining legal way to change your economic situation for most people is investments, buying stocks, bonds, mutual funds, exchange traded funds or any other tradable security. anything other than keeping your money in cash which earns you nothing. investing in a smart way was a potential path to a better life even if you did it relatively passively through your 401(k) at work or pension plan or your

ira. money invested was money you could generally count on to grow over time. until 2008. the financial crisis and the aftermath proved that the game was rigged. the deck was stacked. the house held all the cards. banks inflated profits, they made risky bets that blew up in our faces nearly taking down the global financial system. and the government bailed them out. and they went back to making billions of dollars for their investors and executives and surprise, surprise -- the banks are still behaving badly. just look at the $6 billion in trading losses at j.p. morgan chase. america's biggest and safest bank or the admission by british banking giant that it along with other banks manipulated libor, the base rate of which trillions of dollars of loans are set. hsbc,most respected bank says they're sorry for

laundering money. most people that gamble with your money, they lose a little pay, employers get a fine they can probably pay with money that comes out of their vending machines. for every reason i give you to invest, you can give me nine more why you shouldn't. if i don't twhin argument, you don't prosper. remember elizabeth war snen she is best known as a financial advocate, an advocate for financial reform in america. her willingness to go head-to-head with wall street is why the obama administration brought her in two years ago to get the consumer financial protection bureau off the ground. she is now the democratic candidate for senate in massachusetts. i asked her what she sees as its strengths and the weaknesses of our financial system. >> the strength is the consumer financial protection bureau. and the reason it's the strength is it has a very clear mission that is to mow down the fine print in credit cards and to stop the cheating on mortgages and to level the playing field

and make it easier for families to see what something costs and to make direct comparisons and to pick the one that is the cheapest. and it has political installation. it is set up so kit do its work in a professional manner on behalf of the american people. give them a real voice in washington. i think that's the strongest part of dodd/frank. i think the places where there are problems under dodd/frank are when dodd/frank quite reasonably said we're going to give it back to the agencies like the commodity futures trading commission. the problem was republicans started attacking the regulatory agencies. >> right. that's where your problem came in. they said th can't have you running this body that has this absolute ability to make

decisions about -- you know, without congressional oversight. they did let someone else be confirmed. they did let richard codray be confirmed. it was a watered down version of what you wrote. it is helpful? >> well, now i do want to say about the consumer agency, as it is set up right now, it's pretty insulated from political influence. and so it's really getting out there right now. it's established a consumer hotline so that people who have a problem with financial institution or a credit card, mortgage can call in and get somebody on their side. it's writing the regulations to make mortgages clearer, take the tricks and traps out of credit cards. it's out there working for service members and for seniors and for students and other groups that have been targeted by lousy credit products. and right now as it stands, it's got good ins laugs from the politics of washington.

what is going on is the republicans have introduced bills to cut its funding, to make it more political and to repeal it outright. in other words, there assaulting it, trying to make it, trying to weaken it so that it won't be age to do its job. that's where the real fight is going to be. does the agency survive as a strong voice for consumers? or are the republicans able just -- and their banks just to be able to mow it down and basically turn it into something weak and useless. >> there are only three ways that americans can prosper. they can either -- their wages can increase and we know that has not been happening for low eastern middle income people. they can -- the val you've their home can go up. and while you have worked on protections for mortgages, ultimately it will be a long time before we have a housing recovery. so the final ways that they can invest prudently in the stock market through mutual funds and that is working against americans. every week they find some more

evidence of the system being rigged against them. we need leadership to say that the american consumer, the american investor, the american home buyer and the american worker comes first. why is that leadership not coming out of the white house? >> you know, here's how i see this. you are exactly right. what we need is we need a level playing field, a set of rules and transparent so that you know when you make an investment that the game isn't rigged against you. it's not rigged against you in every possible way. right now i lay the blame with congress. and every attempt that congress has made, the democrats have introduced to try to get some more accountability into the financial system, the bank lobbyists and their friends have blocked. they said no. we won't do it. and they have engaged in what is really a gorilla war right now.

so that after dodd/frank passed, it's been the case that the bank lobbyists and their friends in the united states senate have gone out and secretly lobbied to try to delay implementation, to try to put holes -- create loopholes in the implementation of the bill, try to tangle the bill in complexity. in other words, the financial system hasn't changed. >> coming up next, you heard elizabeth warren talk about the controversial dodd/frank act. i'm going to hit that hard when we come back. it's one of the frez's landmark pieces of legislation designed to protect you and your finances. it's two years old now. depending on the political wins, it could be watered down or washed out altogether. i'll speak to the new head of the consumer financial protection bureau. . hello. i want to take you straight to

aurora, colorado, you're looking at live pictures by way of our affiliate kcnc. we understand from authorities there that they may soon be ready to try to detonate this booby trapped apartment, that apartment that of the suspect and that movie massacre just yesterday early morning. james holmes. you can see them in some of the bomb experts in a so-called bucket that they have ascended to the third floor level of this apartment complex. they pull out a little bit more. you see them of course handling wiring. i don't have the intricacies of what they're doing. but our security analyst mike brooks is on phone and has a much better understanding of this kind of method of trying to carry out a controlled detonation. mike, from your understanding, what we can see is wiring that they're putting through the window here after they busted out that glass window. really they did that early

yesterday as they were trying to get kind of some surveillance. and now we see them holding spoolz of wiring. what do you suppose they're doing? >> they're setting up, it looks to me, eye watching this now, it looks to me like they're setting up -- they're going to shoot a disruptor. as we were talking about that before. it looks like some wires and some other things they're setting up there. they can back away from that and then go ahead and they'll just have a small little blast box and they'll send an electrical charge through to shoot a -- it could be a gel or a water or some other kind of device through whatever they're shooting at, what of they're looking at right now zrig to disrupt and disrupt the electrical current. now, as i said earlier, it could just be a small boom. but that again you may have a sympathetic detonation that could occur. i don't know exactly what they're shooting right now. but it looks -- it looks to me right now like they're trying to

set up a shot. and they can do it the safest way is to do it the way they're doing it now is to set it up and then go ahead and get out of the way of the window because if they did have sympathetic detonation, it would come right through that window. you don't want to be in front of that window. they're in a fire department bucket right now. and they are setting up the shot, what we say setting up a shot and we'll hear something here if a couple minutes. >> really? and so they're lowering that bucket. we heard from the sergeant earlier from the aurora police department who said that they would close off some of the streets. however, we're seeing some vehicles that are streaming right before the cameras here in the foregrond. they would close off the streets before they would do a controlled detonation. now is it possible that the wiring they have just done with the spools now lowering that bucket that it would be a very small, you know, a very pinpointed kint of detonation as opposed to, you know, trying to blast out the entire apartment? >> again, it's not -- in this

particular point it doesn't look like a detonation. it looks like they will have what they call a disruptor. and it's basically almost the size, a little bigger than a shotgun that will shoot through whatever they're trying to disrupt electrical current and render that particular device or that particular thing we're looking at now to render that safe. now as i said, you could have what they call a sympathetic detonation which could go ahead and make a larger -- i don't even know -- i can't say. i can't see what they're shooting at right now. we know that one of the incendiary devices, they rendered that safe along with the trip wire. there is the next item that they deem hazardous that they're trying to render safe. this is called an rsp, a render safe procedure. >> so a disruptor, just so i have a better understanding. this disruptor of electronic r electric current that, is something that no one from the exterior would really be able to

see, you know, smell or feel. >> you could probably be able to hear it. if they do it. we see it sometimes when you have a suspicious package on the street. if they x-ray it and they really can't get a good look on an x-ray, they'll go ahead and we see sometimes i know when i was if washington we would do it on a regular basis. we would go ahead and just out of a precaution go ahead and shoot a disruptor through that particular package, try to cause an electrical current. bought an current, an ied or device will not go off. >> okay. mike brooks. stand by. we have former fbi agent tom fuentes joining us from washington. what is your understanding based on what you can see? we haven't received any other specific information from the police department. only that initially they said that they would attempt some sort of controlled detonation after disabling a trip wire. and now we're hearing from mike brooks that it's probably shooting of a disruptor.

it may interrupt the electrical current. what would be your understanding based on the image that's you've seen within the past two minutes? >> hi. i would agree with mike completely. everything said is exactly correct. they'll try to do the disruptor and hope for the best. i think the problem in this situation is that sending in the video devices that they used to try to assess what the problem is inside that apartment may not be foolproof. there may be hidden devices. it may not aekt if another one. and another one could possibly detonate unexpectedly. so this particular operation is extremely delicate and dangerous. it's certainly not foolproof. the problem is that best judgment of what's inside that apartment really is going to have to come from a live human being, a bomb expert going in there. that is extremely, extremely perilous. they're trying everything under

the sun to avoid that or delay that. when that finally has to happen, it will have to happen that it's the safe as possible for that person to go in. >> it's understandable when you say it's delicate and dangerous. it pertains to a live human being going in. give me an idea how delicate and dangerous this is at this stage before you have a human being going in but just through this, you know, potential disruptor being used. what could potentially happen? what is the worst case scenario that they're trying to avoid? >> they're trying to avoid major explosion and spreading of flammable liquid throughout that apartment, possibly burning down the whole building. they're also trying to avoid having personnel get hurt or killed in the process of this as well. so that's the danger factor that they have. but unfortunately, they're trying to assess what's in that apartment and it may not be that they know every possible booby trap that was arranged and may not know it until they actually

go in. so that's part of the problem here. they're really hoping they know what they need to know. >> how remarkable is this to you that this could be this sophisticated, this detail oriented involving potentially a person that based on what we know so far of him, a college student that he wouldn't have from our understanding thus far any real background in putting together bombs or explosives? is this something that is remarkable to you? >> it's absolutely remarkable. you're right. when i first heard the story about the wires and trip wires and all of that, my first thought was maybe it's a hoax. where did this guy learn to put something like that together since he's not a former military or former explosives expert. how did he come to be able to rig up something that sophisticated? maybe it's not. maybe it's just watter in the jars and a bunch of wires

hanging around to look like he's very sophisticated. maybe he's not. now the next question is if in fact those are real explosive devices and they're correctly rigged to go off and create the damage that's possible, how did he learn that? and the unfortunate thing is the best way to find that out would be probably on his computer. see what web sites he visited or see what literature books or magazines he may have inside that apartment. and the next problem is that that may be the very information that gets destroyed should items be detonated or even with a controlled detonation to know what he knew. how sophisticated are the devices and if he was able to learn it by book or internet could others learn that same thing? and it will be very important to find out how he learned it. and that may get lost in the damage. >> all right. tom hold on. we have security analyst mike brooks back with us. mike, you have some new information to add? >> no, i just want to point out

to our viewers when they pulled back a little bit, i could see that the aurora fire department has also laid out water supply lines to their pumpers and have pulled some of the hand lines like we saw yesterday just in case sympathetic detonation does happen while they're doing this disruption inside the apartment. you know, hopefully they were able to remove the incendiary device. they say they rendered that safe along with the trip wires in the first phase. so hopefully they were able to get that flammable liquid possibly if any kind of accelerant ought of there so, you know, we don't know exactly what the shot that they're getting ready to take right now, we don't know exactly what they're aiming at or what they're trying to disrupt. but i was hearing also on this live shot, fred reeka, someone said they shut down the road. so that's why they were expecting something here shortly

to happen. sometimes you may also be able to hear from the live shot right before they're getting ready to do a disruption, they say fire in the hole. fire in the hole. fire in the hole three times before they go ahead with the disruptor or they might just do that inside of the apartment. but they do that as a precaution to let people know that this is getting ready to happen. >> security analyst mike brooks along with me on the phone and former fbi agent tom fuentes from washington, d.c. we want to welcome our -- okay. we want to welcome our cnn international viewers right now just to give you an idea of what we're looking at. this is the apartment of that movie massacre suspect james holmes. this apartment complex is believed to be booby trapped. we understand that bomb experts have just laid out a plan to try to offer some sort of disruptor to the electrical current possibly in this unit without compromising all the evidence.

okay. so you saw some kind of movement there taking place involving that window. mike, back you to. you talked about there would be, you know, a clearance of a shot. we saw some kind of disruption in that window. can you describe for us what likely happened there? all right. our mike brooks is no longer on the line. poppy harlow on the scene there. poppy, what kind of information you are hearing about their plan of attack here? >> reporter: let me tell what you happened. they yell fire in the hole three times. it was exactly correct. that happened 40 seconds ago. we heard voices from over behind police lines yell fire in the hole three times. then we heard a boom. it was not dra mattdramatically boom. we heard a boom. that's what happened. we can't make any assumptions here about. this but we were told about an hour ago by the aurora police that they may have to have a

controlled detonation of a device in the apartment. if that happened, there would be a loud boom. you know, you put two and two together. that may be what just happened. again, we heard someone behind police lines yell fire in the hole three times and then after that we did hear a significant boom. so it could have been that controlled detonation just taking a look. i think you have aerial shots possibly as well. there are no flames. this is a very good thing. we heard that there were possibly liquid accelerators tied to some of these devices. you're not seeing any flames at this point in time. the road here, peoria street is closed. they warned us they may do that. the police officers you see here in front of me seem relatively calm. obviously, we're going to go over there as far as we can get, see what happened. but this seems to have gone off as they had planned. a controlled detonation. however, we were told that this police briefer, the last police briefing that there were other devices inside. so she used the word plural.

we don't know if there will be more detonations or not. they didn't get into specifics. again, what we just heard in the past two minutes is fire in the hole yelled three times and then relatively significant boom which very well could have been a controlled detonation. >> so poppy, earlier when we heard from the sergeant and she talked about this first phase including this controlled detonation, she used the word of a mechanism. do we have any idea what that means, that mechanism? >> i have -- we do not. we don't have any clarity on what that means. >> okay. >> and is there a next phase that you all have been informed s of? >> yes. they went through this morning in the earlier briefing is three phases. the first was to get the robot in there and to disable the trip wire. they've been able to do that. the next thing was to get in and get those devices out. we don't know if they've done that yet. we know that there has been at least one disarmed. but we don't know if they have

taken more out. the plan was to take some of these devices, these ieds out to a separate location and detonate them somewhere where it would be safe. the third step, obviously, the bigger overall thing here is an investigation. and they have to be very careful, they told us, as they are doing any detonations, anything inside not to destroy evidence. they could use and need to use in this investigation. so it's moving slowly and very methodically. >> so, poppy, you described they yelled fire in the hole three time. we're going to rerack some of that tape. you may not be able to hear it. you can see through the imagery of what took place in that window. we'll play that right now. >> i can tell that you -- there it goes. that was the explosion. i don't know if can you hear this. it sounded like a loud boom. >> quickly, that was the sound, poppy, you mentioned from your per view was very difficult to see. very difficult to hear. it wasn't that audible. but did you hear the yelling of

the fire in the hole, fire in the hole. so it sounds as though it was very pinpointed toward whatever that mechanism is and our security analyst mike brooks mentioning earlier as they were unraveling the spools of wiring they would take a shot when they felt they had clearance of that mechanism and that's exactly how it unfolded. seemingly right according to plan, right? >> reporter: it sounds like it. it's really hard to tell from this vant aage point, fred. i could hear the boom that was not that alarming. it sounded like two big crates crashing into one another. we'll have to go and see and talk more. hopefully they'll have another press briefing. but we were told if they did have a controlled detonation there would be a boom. and we heard a boom. and that's what i can tell you. >> got it. all right. thanks so much, hoppoppy harlow reporting from that apartment

complex. and you're looking at the third level unit that was occupied at one time by the suspect of that movie massacre, james holmes. he is now in custody. expected to be in court for the first time on monday. you saw a controlled detonation of some sort of mechanism. we're hoping to hear from the police department momentarily to find out just how successful this plan has been thus far. we're going to take a short break and we'll be right back with much more of our continuing coverage of the investigation surrounding this movie massacre in colorado. there are patients who will question, why does my mouth feel dryer than i remember it to be? there are more people taking more medication, so we see people suffering from dry mouth more so. we may see more cavities, bad breath, oral irritation. a dry mouth sufferer doesn't have to suffer. i would recommend biotene. the enzymes in biotene products help supplement enzymes that are naturally in saliva. biotene helps moisten those areas that have become dry.

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. welcome back. i'm in atlanta. we also want to welcome our international viewers watching us on cnn international. you're looking at live pictures of the exterior of the building and the unit that was once occupied by the suspect in that movie massacre in colorado, james holmes. just moments ago bomb experts detonated a mechanism. we don't know what kind of mechanism. they were able to do so by way of using a disruptor that they were able to shoot through the broken windows there. it's unclear whether it was mission accomplished in terms of this now second phase of this detonation process. they did successfully defeat the first threat is how police put it, a trip wire that they were able to detonate. and then the second phase was to try to do a sort of controlled detonation of some sort of mechanism. and we just saw the bloost a

short time ago. it was not a big blast. police yelling out fire in the hole three times. and then that shot was taken by that times and that shot was taken by a disruptor and you saw movement by way of the blinds in the windows. we'll be getting an update by police momentarily of the next phase of this process on whether they'll be putting robotics into that unit to try to glean more information and try to detonate other explosive material and at the same time try to remove any crucial evidence that will surround this investigation. so we'll keep an eye on that. in the meantime, we're learning more about the victims. 12 people kill individual, 38 injured. our nick valencia is in the newsroom with more information that we're learning about those killed and you have new information? >> we do, fredericka. this just in to cnn moments ago. we were able to confirm the seventh name of the 12 people killed in the aurora, colorado

shooting. the victim identified as a.j.boik. i believe we have a facebook page, friends held a memorial in colorado for him. he was a student in gateway high school. we spoke of the father of the friend sitting next on a.j. during that movie massacre as we've been reporting on throughout the day. a.j.'s friend, and a.j.'s girlfriend were close enough to james holmes that what we believe to be tear gas canisters went over their heads and his friend was able to make it out. unfortunately, a.j. perished in that shooting, but this is new information into cnn moments ago. cnn identifying a seventh victim of the 12 killed. a.j. boik, a high school gateway high school student there in aurora, colorado. these details are continuing to pour in, fredericka whitfield, and we'll have more once it becomes available to us. >> 12 people killed, 38 injured,

of the 12 you've been able to present to us the identities of seven of those individuals and tell us about each of them and our hearts go out to their family members, many of them who learned hours, sometimes ten and 12 hours after the shooting and the death of their loved ones. of course, we'll have much more in our continuing coverage of this movie massacre, the suspect and the investigation. wherever the wind takes me. this is so off course. nature can surprise you sometimes... next time, you drive. next time, signal your turn. ...that's why we got a subaru. love wherever the road takes you.

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live pictures we want to show you in aurora, colorado, and this is the apartment complex where the suspect in that movie massacre once stayed and this unit on the third floor of this apartment complex is booby trapped and that's why authorities have been working over 24 hours now trying to get into that unit, but at the same time not compromising the

evidence and certainly not compromising anyone's lives including that of the first responders. just moments ago they actually put some sort of detonation device through a window and we saw a bit of a boom, didn't hear much, but you could see it. tom fuentes is formerly with the fbi and with us right now. we haven't heard from police whether this has been a successful mission of yet, and they did detonate a trip wire and they wanted to go around some sort of mechanism. do you believe they likely got their target? >> it appears so, frederick abu we don't know if they'll have to do this repeatedly, 10 or 11 or 12 more times for each separate device, so i'm not sure from just looking at outside pictures at this point, how many devices were neutralized even if the first one was, but if it was a successful disruption, there's still possibly going to have to be many, many more one step at a time. >> all right. tom, clearly, they weren't too concerned about the periphery there because they're allowing

cars to still go by as you see in the foreground and the number of people in the sidewalks and they did mention if it gets more serious in terms of a detonation they would evacuate that area. t tom fuentes, thank you for that. we'll be checking in with you and your expertise momentarily. mine was earned off vietnam in 1968. over the south pacific in 1943. i got mine in iraq, 2003. usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection,

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i tell mike what i can spend. i do my best to make that work. we're driving safely. and sue saved money on brakes. now that's personal pricing. you're in the cnn "newsroom." i'm fredericka whitfield. we want to bring you up-to-date surrounding the movie massacre. things are beginning to move rather quickly this hour in aurora, colorado. the scene of the mass shooting at the movie theater that left 12 people dead. new developments at the shooting suspect's apartment now, just moments ago, a controlled detonation of sorts. you heard the boom there.

all we understand is that police actually yelled "fire in the hole" three times after placing some sort of wiring through the window by way of bomb experts that were in a bucket that were lifted to that third floor level. they placed some sort of wiring in there and we understand from our security analysts who we spoke to last hour who was explained to us that a device would then be shot into the window when they felt like we had a good point of view. so you heard the boom there. still unclear from the police department whether this was mission accomplished. we don't know if they actually hit their target. we hope to hear more details and we are hearing from former assistant director of the fbi tom fuentes. you've had familiarity with scenes like this involving the detonation of bombs, explosive, et cetera and you just told us in the last 15 minutes how remarkable, you thought, and sophisticated you thought, this kind of booby trapping